Welcome to the World of Capital™. It is nice to see you are awake.

Now then, how far do you want to go with this argument? Daisey is a middle-class educated white male who is a USA citizen, right? Should we list the benefits of birth he enjoys? Yet he feels comfortable complaining about Jobs as he shepherds in the very tools that will be used by many of these same oppressed people to fight for equality. From my vantage, there is no tech company that has done more to fight for equality. Maybe Daisey can educated me on this.

Does Apple do wrong? You betcha! But let's talk about who does better so Apple can have a leader to follow into the light. That, or get off your high horse and figure out a way for corporations to exist without doing bad. I am happy for the "Daisey Report" but it is more of an indictment of our entire economic system than of Apple. What else is Apple supposed to do? Build computers in Sacramento paying Union rates and providing health care and pensions for same-sex unions? Oh, right, they did that but their products were too expensive and Microsoft ate their lunch.

It seems to me that Daisey is experiencing the pangs of Colonial Guilt™. Rather than deal with it and work for a better world, he wants to deflect your focus of his complicity by yacking about another who is "more privileged" than he. I am sorry you fell for it. If he has an issue with Apple, I think he is really having a problem with himself and the country he calls home.

I tend to agree with you Ulan, however, I feel that Tony Kontzer does not understand the real issue. The real issue is the Chinese Government. For instance, Chinese women are forced into having an abortion if they have more than one child. Also, they are forced into sterilization so that they can't have more children. Tony, if you really want to help and become a real journalist, you should start by publicizing the real issues and cruelties that the Chinese Government imposes on their people.

It's shameful that there are so many people who want to close the factories in Shenzhen and throw millions of Chines out of work. What do you imagine these people would be doing if western business pulled out and handed the work back to unionized American workers? Most of them would literally be left to starve.

The Chinese recognize this and so welcome the investment and jobs.

Those that have not read history repeat it! The USA was the result of colonial actions by England, including slavery, indentured serfs and the like. Even worse, the Chinese government claims to be communist, but they 'ain't even close' to what Marx wrote; Marx also forgot the small item known as 'incentives'. Saddest of all, we are watching China repeat the disaster of the Soviet Union which could wind up putting nuclear devices in the hands of Chinese revolutionairy folks while the USA goes down the toilet watching. Unions are the result of bad management with the answer simple: stock ownership by all in the enterprise. Time for a new Constitutional Convention in the USA!

@ Bryan Dale

Actually they would not starve; they would be home on the farm with their families. There is a new phenomenon occurring in China, there is a labor shortage. There are many companies that can no longer staff their production facilities because many young Chinese are deciding that working in factories in unhealthy and inhumane conditions is not what they want to do with their lives.

They are returning to their small towns in droves and working to make their home towns (generally farming communities) more profitable and livable. They have found they were happier with their families working in the fields than working to produce cheap goods for Western consumers.

Those that are staying behind are asking for higher wages and demanding better living conditions. What a concept

How sad for them... not.

I worked at 12 - as a babysitter - and I worked at 15 - as a store clerk. Maybe I did not *endure endless, grueling shifts without speaking* but I was proud of earning my OWN money. I learned early on that handouts were NOT the way to go.

So Shenzhen is not Utopia, but then neither is Cupertino. What these people are getting is an OPPORTUNITY which they never had before. An opportunity to make a choice. An opportunity to do things differently.

Can things be made better? Of course! they always can. But don't take away their opportunity in the name of some phony equality that insures destitution, famine and Stalin-like sameness.

Okay, first to Ulan (and just to disclose, he's a friend/neighbor of mine who's very passionate about many things, including Apple's technology): I don't think I "fell" for anything. And I don't read Daisey's show as "complaining." He's merely sharing his perspectives from an unusual experience of getting to see first-hand what the workers of Shenzhen endure. Corporations do bad--I understand this. I think I was trained from a very young age to understand this. But whether we can find other companies doing better (or worse) isn't important. And I don't mean to be picking on Apple. I'm merely trying to rely some interesting perspectives our readers may be lacking. The fact that Daisey is a privileged, middle-class white man is irrelevant in my opinion--that he's a human being who cares how other humans are treated on the road to providing him with technological thrills is what I believe matters.

Also, when you ask what Apple's supposed to do? Yes, they SHOULD pull production from Shenzhen and move it someplace where they can rely on a manufacturer who pays competitive wages, provides healthcare benefits, and does more than put up nets when dozens of employees who see no reason for hope and start flinging themselves off of roofs. Apple made $6 BILLION IN PROFIT in its most recent quarter. Clearly, delivering value to shareholders is a lot more people than making sure the workers who assemble your products are able to live and work in a dignified fashion.

As for the ensuing dialog, I wish I was the kind of journalist who could shed light on what's going on in Shenzhen and help spur change. Alas, my job is much smaller--I'm just here to share my perspectives as they relate to information technology. And clearly, this is an issue worth debating, regardless which side of the debate you fall on.

I have little doubt that if all the factories of Shenzhen were shut down, the workers would ultimately land in a better place, whether that's back home working farmlands, or moving on to jobs in places where they get fair pay for a fair day's work. Yes, there would be pain, as there is in all change. But in the end, the main price would be that Apple (or any of the other electronics makers who are complicit in this) would make a bit less money, a few investors would get ruffled, and Westerners would pay a little more for their precious devices. I wouldn't shed a tear for any of them--and I can't say that now for the workers of Shenzhen.

Thank you, Tony, for seeing this show and sharing it with us. In my many years doing PR in this field, I hardly ever see articles or even blogs that share these perspectives. Seems like hundreds of media have the same tech beat and cover all shiny new Apple things compared to 2 or 3 that care enough to write about the humanity involved. Refreshing.

Also, thank you for your response to Ulan. Also refreshing.

Best,
Allyson

"I have little doubt that if all the factories of Shenzhen were shut down, the workers would ultimately land in a better place, whether that's back home working farmlands, or moving on to jobs in places where they get fair pay for a fair day's work."

This confused perception of the workplace is common to Luddites. The workers in Shenzhen have already intentionally left the farm for better jobs at Foxconn. I'm not sure why anyone would want to take this option away from them.

CTD: I'm torn--I don't know whether to react to your indirectly calling me a Luddite as an insult or a compliment. ;-)

I kind of figured someone would respond to that sentence the way you did. I don't mean to pretend that things aren't hard on the rural Chinese. I'm sure many of the Foxconn workers couldn't wait to escape the hard labor on the farms and discover the big bright world. But I'm also sure many of them have buyer's regret given what certainly sounds like oppressive working conditions. Some no doubt are pining for the situations they left, and some are thinking, "there has to be something better."

Naturally, there are also many who probably think working at Foxconn is a dream come true, and who would become despondent if their jobs were pulled out from under them. My view is that this portion of the workers is most likely ill-informed and misguided, and would, in fact, land in a better place anyway.