Here is a link to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline:

http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

Thanks for the comments on Richard Egan. I did not know him or you and I am not sure why but I read the whole of the articule. Maybe because I have also known people who have decided to use suicide as a way to stop whatever the unbearable is. Although I don't understand and hope never to have a reason to I find myself thinking sometimes about the 'why' behind the act.
Late in the articule I found this quote by Richard Egan that is now part of my 'notable post it notes' pasted around my world:
'To do good, Just to feel good, Is no good'
Thanks Richard. Heres hoping you found the peace we all seek.

Mr. Cone

Your article startled and touched me, as this is the first time I have ever replied to a blog.

My condolences to you.

Also, may I affirm your desire and willingness to share such an emotional, private story. Your sheding light on the many reasons for suicide is worthwhile as it brings understanding, which hopefully causes awareness and perhaps prevention.

Thank you for this message.

Mr. Kontzer

My apologies for the last post using Ed Cone's name. I saw his picture and by line on the web page and thought he wrote your article.

Goes to show that I really am a novice at this 'posting' stuff.

brave, intelligent and much needed post. thank you. my first wife also took her life. also "done in by a bad brain" as we learn more and more about the way the brain works, how genetic and chemical differences cause the disproportionate differences in personal happiness and social acceptance, hopefully we should see more of this kind of understanding

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and causing us to pause in our busy day on an important issue.

Honesty and openness are good steps to take towards better understanding.

Thanks very much for this post. It reminds me once again of the need for a national dialog on end of life care/death with dignity/ and quality of life/death issues.

The stigma around suicide impacts rational discussions of euthanasia and - dare I say it- the important impact that discussions with one's physicians about end of life care. Shame on those folks ignorant enough to portray a important dialog with a doctor as a "death panel".

The fact that someone with the intelligence and means as Richard Egan had to resort to using a gun to end his own life, rather than other options is a mark on our society...

Tony, I think you've touched several nerves and will receive many comments on your posting. My first wife was 45 when she committed suicide, facing problems that most other people find a way to overcome. Yet, that was the only solution she could see. That was 16 years ago and I still think of her and the situation every day. I know the statistics keep being reported as 30,000 per year, but that's the same number that's been reported for the last 16 years.
The book that has helped me most is "Night Falls Fast" by Kay Redfield Jamison.
finding your post on a tech blog just reminds me that whatever our calling or industry we need to remember that we are within one or two degrees of freedom from someone who may be contemplating suicide. Not a bad thing to keep in mind. I appreciate your courage in sharing your personal tragedy. It is very helpful.

Thank you, Tony Kontzer, for such a trenchant and meaningful writing. My deepest empathies for your loss.

I believe that, as we go through this debacle in which many have lost work, homes, sustenance, health care, support, and, seemingly, purpose, it is crucial to talk about despair, and what we all might do mitigate some of it.

Thank you again for opening your heart.

any suicide is tragic. it is a cry for help that should have been heeded long before the event. speaking as a doctor who used to work at a major cancer hospital, all I can say is: "THERE IS HOPE" no matter what the problem there are centers that can handle the problem--whatever it is: pain,depression,treatment options,etc. the important thing is that people know this. a lot of good centers don't exactly advertize their services. but they are there. also the American Cancer society can offer information and that can help. but remember there is hope. if ever in doubt,network and ask around-- even use a computer message board and ask others what to do and where to go. don't kill your self. get help

Mr. Kontzer,

Your blog post was one of the best I have read in some time, speaking as it does to the fact that inspite of all the technology we all deal with, at the end of the day, technology serves people, is implemented by people, etc. We can never forget, or fail to respect the complexities of wetware. If we do, we diminish ourselves. Thank you for a uniquely human, and humane, technology post....

Batch

Mr. Kontzer,

While I am sorry about your wife's demise and think your issue is well worth raising the awareness of suicide, I would like to address Mr. Egan's situation.

I read the article at the Register that you linked too and found the details gruesome. It brings up one of my pet issues, the right to die. A rational thinking man faced with a terminal illness should not have to go into a closet and blow his head off with a shot gun! We need to offer alternative solutions.

As for the "bad brain", mental illness, we again do not as a society offer the level of care that is needed. It is shameful. We need to get America's mental heath care back on track.

Thank you for your article.

Normally I delete nuisance emails from CIO Insight. Howver, the subject header intrigued me and I, too, read the entire article. This was a thoughtful, well-written piece.

My condolences, Tony, on the passing of your wife.

Thank you Mr. Kontzer for your piercing perspective on a cultural taboo that continues to keep this pandemic from the light of truth.

Thank also for your courage in sharing with us your personal story. My deepest sympathies.

-Therese

Wow...Thank you for a unique and thought-provoking perspective on a touchy subject.

As someone who has both suffered from depression, as well as being the mother of someone who attempted suicide, I applaud your effort to bring more attention to this matter. However, I think your post makes some assumptions that do a disservice to Mr. Egan and his family. I hesitated to point these out, but because suicide is such a serious matter that we all need to understand better, I decided to write.

First of all, your statement, "facing a long battle with terminal lung cancer. . ." The fact is Mr. Egan, according to news reports, had been diagnosed in May and had been battling cancer, not simply "facing" a battle. He had been undergoing treatment, and none of us know his short term prognosis, the results of that treatment, nor the impact those treatments had on his physical and emotional well-being. You also stated, "Consider that three days after reports broke that Egan had shot himself in the head rather than face a slow death by cancer. . ." None of us knows exactly why Mr. Egan committed suicide, and unless we discussed it with the man, none of us are qualified to state the "why." Too often, people make assumptions about how a depressed person thinks or what they're feeling. The assumptions we make can be dangerous since they can blind us to other things that truly need attention when we deal with someone who is depressed. So I think your statement is not only unfair to Mr. Egan, but also promotes a behavior that is not helpful. When dealing with someone who is depressed, listen to them, discuss things with them when possible, get them professional help. But never assume anything.

Lastly, you make two statements right after another that are somewhat contradictory: ". . .EMC still was standing by a press release stating that Egan died "after a long battle with cancer. Every day, families all over the country similarly pretend that a family member died in some other, more dignified way."

You mention EMC's position, and then immediately after make your statement about the denial of families of suicides. Let me point out that EMC is not Mr. Egan's family. Perhaps EMC's management thought it was up to the family to discuss the circumstances of Mr. Egan's death if they so wished -- an attitude I happen to agree with. Personally, I would not want the company of one of my family members announcing things that are my prerogative to reveal and/or discuss publicly. At Mr. Egan's public memorial service, the family did allude to the circumstances of his death. It wasn't mentioned in every last detail, nor do I think it needed to be, but the fact that his death was by suicide was not exactly hidden, either. In my opinion, it was much more powerful and meaningful for the family refer to the circumstances than for EMC to publicize them. After all, it was the family who was affected since Mr. Egan hasn't been at EMC for years.

Again, I thank you for your efforts. I would simply caution against anyone making assumptions, mis-characterizing thoughts or actions, or taking away from a family what is their prerogative to do. Assumptions can blind people, mis-characterizations can promote stigmatization instead of lessening it, and families should be allowed to make, and get credit for, their efforts. Because in the long run, when dealing with those who depressed, it's very important for those of us who are not to keep an open mind and see things as clearly as possible. Thank you.

These comments about suicide and the various reactions to it are extremely important and should be continued. As the population ages and faces more health challenges and we have less economic resources to deal with them, I see suicide as an growing problem. How about a suicide blog, either start a new one or recommend one already in existence.

J.

I'm not sure how odd this sounds, but I've been living with HIV for 15 years. I'm healthy (in fact, healthier than many non-infected people I know) and I've lived realtively symptom-free for the last 10 years or so. On the other hand, if I were to be diagnosed with cancer, I'd off myself if I had to undergo debilitating chemo or other life-diminishing therapy. I wouldn't want to live that life and I wouldn't want to put my family thru it either.

For Joe Pierce and others who would like more information on helping family members who are depressed and/or are survivors of suicide, I recommend Families for Depression Awareness at http://www.familyaware.org. This site was started by a woman whose brother committed suicide and contains much helpful information on depression and assisting those who are depressed. And, there is a very informative brochure on the site, "Coping After A Suicide." The brochure is very helpful for friends and family who, understandably, have many questions after such a tragedy.

Hope this info helps.

Mr. Cone

Your article touched me, as ones who have been touched by this type of dread event can only appreciate the hollow feeling attached to the ones left to deal with the loss. There are just no words that can express this feeling of loss for a friend or loved one...we can only truly remember them and miss them.

There was a memorial book we put together for our friend from work of 19 yrs....I wrote to him...

May the road rise to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the rain fall soft upon your fields,
and until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of his hand.

Good bye Harry, I will miss you
and our conversations.

Steve

I do understand....My condolences to you Ed.

Do you think it would have been more dignified and less "suicide" if a kind hospice worker had given him an overdose of narcotics? I think this was a very brave and noble act that save those he loved heartbreak and huge costs that would have drained them emotionally and financially. How could he have been a greater hero? By making everyone suffer for a long time?

Thank you for a very thought-provoking article. Perhaps if suicide wasn't such a 'taboo' subject, we might be better able to help those both considering it and those who are left in the wake of someone carrying it out.

Thank you for your courageous and thoughtful posting. An unexpected article to find on this sad and distressful event.

Tony, what a wonderful article! From the comments posted, it seems that whether we believe we have an of understanding of suicide, feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, mental illness terminal illness, it certainly strikes fear and sometimes denial in most of us. I, too, have been affected by a family member with depression, terminal illness and his determination that he would decide when and how it would end. He had the means and never used it, I'm not sure why. He died from the cancer and I'm not sure what was more difficult, the fear that he would use the means or the seeing the look in his eyes once he knew there was no more help nor hope. I admire your bravery in broaching the subject and putting the pen to most of our silent thoughts. You are most correct. Do not be swayed from the negative feedback, they're still in denial....

Thank you for a well written article on a subject that many choose to avoid. I lost my husband to suicide in 2006. I have found the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention to be an incredible source of not only information, but also strength and hope as I try turn tragedy in to something positive. I encourage anyone who has lost someone to suicide to visit their website www.afsp.org.

I am so sorry whenever I hear about someone taking their life. There are worse things though: over 22 years of marriage my wife succumbed to her family's genetic curse and went from a sweet-natured woman to a vicious, paranoid sociopath. She got it in her head that the local Indian casinos were sending money to the Taliban through ties with the mafia. She claimed that a government agent confirmed it to her. She attempted to shoot me when I refused to run away with her. After the divorce, she told the kids all kinds of horrible things and they want nothing to do with me. I did NOT have sex with a prostitute and come home and brag about it. I was faithful to the end. I have not seen my three youngest children since my 15 year-old son set my house on fire after we went to bed. He first disarmed the smoke detectors. My neighbor saw the fire,the kids outside and dressed after midnight and woke me up. The police refused to do anything. I lost most everything.
My son believes his mother is a victim of a vast government conspiracy. Your wife may be dead but you were allowed to bury her, grieve and rebuild your life. My wife is dead but someone horrible stalks the earth wearing her skin. I don't even know where my children are.

I didn't know Mr. Egan, but he created the industry that is my career, and for that I will always be thankful.

In a way I can see what he would want to leave. Cancer in any form is not a good way to go.

I am sorry though. He remains a good man.

Thank you for writing about the topics of suicide and mental illiness.

The stigma of both is something we need to overcome so that people can talk openly about it. Once you begin to speak with people you will be amazed that how many people have those secrets tucked under a rug.

I've had a family member diagnosed with mental illiness. The stories/experiences are completely mind boggling both in a postive and negative manner. There are tons of people out there that are willing to help. If you need to talk with someone please find a support group. Your not alone in what your going through. Had I not found Thresholds a support group for siblying with mental illiness in Chicago I would not be writing this post right now.

Don't get me wrong is was a difficult process to open up to people but sometime you need to realize that you to talk to someone that is not a family member or friend. Some that you don't have to worry about are they going to judge me for saying what I really feel.

There are many people that don't understand mental illiness and or the causes of suicide. It's amazing how many people get a feel for it once you speak with them about it.

We all complain about projects being difficult, technology not working the way we want it too. Just imagine what it would feel like if your thinking was so confused you couldn't function or process information the way you once could.

thanks for the space
Jim

Tony,

The emotions run so deep with suicide. The word itself makes people cringe. When people ask me how my father died (I was 5) I say "It was a personal choice he made." My best friend at 23 made the same choice. I have been left behind with the guilt: "What could I have done?", "What didn't I see?" and the anger of "How could you throw your life away - you were so wonderful...." Then I watched my step father battle cancer for 7 years. If I ever get cancer I may make the same personal choice but my family and friends would understand why. My condolences.

Thank you for your well-written and thought-provoking commentary on a very difficult subject.

Sorry for your personal loss.

Mr. Kontzer, thank you for sharing your insights and for putting everything into perspective, if only for a moment.

Thanks for this thoughtful post. Personally I see every suicide as a tragedy, and my condolences to you Tony and to the Egan family.

Even though we are all technocrats and geeks, we must keep in mind that the end of technology is improving the lives of people. Suicide gets to the heart of what "quality of life" means. This is a timeless moral question on which we cannot pretend to be neutral. Every product, service and system we create impacts people for better and for ill. We must weigh this impact carefully.

All the technology in the world is a pitance compared to the value of human life.

It is my mother's side of the family that has the most cancer. My mother died of breast cancer and many others on her side of the family. All seemed as hard case cancer patients. All doomed to the same end as Richard Egan. I would say seven people are involved. I am the seventh and someone down the road in my daughter's line will be the eighth. None of them took the easy way out. I can tell you that people who do commit suicide do not care for the people left behind who greve for them. The sad sad end may be that others may dispair to the point of killing themselves because of this one suicide. I hope Mr. Egan has a strong family.

Tony, thank you for your article that brings awareness to the very serious problems that severe depression can cause in our society. The best way to deal with, and prevent situations like these, is to talk openly about them.

I also thank the many respondents for their comments. I learned much from them. I’m going to print your article and share it with many people in my National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) Family-to-Family class on Mental Illness. We talk about suicide and the causes to our classes because some of our caregivers are dealing with situations that could result in it. Much of what I’ve read in this blog will be inspirational to my students, and no doubt will result in the prevention of a similar disaster sometime in the future.

I’ve given care to my son who has schizophrenia for about 19 years. We did have an episode in which he attempted to commit suicide. It resulted in me being more committed to not give him over to the symptoms of this disease. It appeared at the time that he was in control, but I now know that he was not. The same is true of many victims of long-term illness. So the idea of dying with dignity is not very valid, and I refuse to make it an acceptable part of my vocabulary. I would feel very selfish to want him out of my life for any reason, or for him to want to limit my options for caring for him.

I can partially understand the position of the company. But wouldn’t it have been better if the public relations officer had acknowledged the situation, and at the same time, alert the employees that help is available if they are faced with a similar situation. An ounce of prevention can yield a much better bottom line. As we all know, ignoring problems or "doing nothing" can be very costly.

One final point, the term “bad brain” supports stigma and misunderstanding. Illnesses such as severe depression are actually brain diseases, and should be viewed, discussed, and treated in a manner similar to cancer or diabetes.

Greg Wright

Thanks Ed for talking about a painful situation. I worked for EMC back in the late 80s and early 90s and met Dick Egan several times.

More importantly my life has been touched by suicide, my sister in law committed suicide Jan 29, 1967 standing in front of the casket holding my brother and 10 month old niece...she had been driving the car and lost control killing her husband and daughter...she survived without a scratch. The unbearable pain and guilt was too much for her and she left to join them. I think of them often and that day...I think of what could have been and what I could have done...all to no avail...

Thanks for this post...

Thank you for such a thorough and thought-provoking article. While suicide is still a stigmatic topic, it will only become a more prevalent reality if we choose to bury our heads in the sand rather than speak openly of it and what can drive people to that brink. And it's not always tragic and senseless - sometimes, it's just tragic.

Kudos on a wonderfully tasteful article on a difficult subject, and for putting the link to the suicide prevention hotline at the TOP of the comments page!

Thank you for having the courage to share your personal story. Your comment "done in by a bad brain" rings so true. About 10 years ago one of my friend's husband committed suicide. During her grief she told me about his hospitalizations, recovery and setbacks. In listening to her, I realized her husband did not die from suicide - he died from depression.

In recent years, I, too, have been afflicted by depression. It is by the grace of God, the love of my husband, family and friends along with wonderful mental health professionals that I never sunk beyond reach.

My depression has made me aware that mental illness is no different from other chronic conditions such as diabetes, high blood pressure, and thyroid. The way I look at is I have a serotonin imbalance and like others who are afflicted with a medical condition, I have a responsibility to take good care of myself. Which, for me means getting adequate rest, having a healthy diet and practicing yoga to help manage my stress. However, I live with the knowledge I will always be vulnerable to this disease.

Sadly, many people still believe that depression is just the result of worrying too much or having a negative attitude and that those afflicted with this illness just need to snap out of it. It is people like you, who have the courage to share their experience, that help to eradicate the stigma that accompanies depression and other mental illnesses.

Folks:
A long time ago, a Doctor told me why people commit suicide. They run out of "BS". They just think "Why bother, who cares, what matter does it make". And so they crank themselves up and check out. That is why I say to people " Take it easy, nobody gets out of here alive anyway, so enjoy the passing view." "So have fun and think happy thoughts" "Just when you give up, all things get solved and then you will miss the fun" "What comes after life will get here soon enough in it's own good time"

Nuff Said

Inventor.

Mr. Kontzer & Mr. Cone: Permit me to weigh in on the conversation about suicide in the name of the Wounded Warriors who are no longer with us. In a 2007 piece, "Suicide Epidemic Among Veterans," [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml] CBS reports that in 2005 there were over 6,200 suicides among those who served in the armed forces. That's 120 each and every week, in just one year. This suicide epidemic among soldiers is vastly underreported. The good news is that there is a promising treatment for PTSD and TBI: hyperbaric oxygen therapy. The website that gets much more deeply into issues related to Veteran Traumatic Brain Injury and PTSD -- and the success stories to date [see SCORECARD] -- is WWW.NBIRRFUND.ORG. The Clinical Trial underway, The National Brain Injury Rescue and Rehabilitation Project, holds promise for treating insults to the brain for far more injuries that just those received in combat. That number is estimated at between 300,000 and 600,000 soldiers, but the numbers are far larger for vehicle accidents, falls, strokes, sports injuries and carbon monoxide poisoning. Drugging the symptoms, while in some cases a welcome relief from pain, is insufficient. Technology that gets to the physiology of treatment is at hand. Congratulations at peeling back the veneer to get at the rest of the story. We can improve the quality of life for veterans who were once whole. Please visit WWW.NBIRRFUND.ORG. We as a nation must honor the promise to our veterans that we will not abandon them on the battlefield, or the battles for their lives that follow TBI and PTSD.

Tony,

Thank you for the piece, and condolences.

In reply to Michael Jones,you said that people who commit suicide, "took the easy way out". You don't understand the issue, and you do a disservice to the memories of people who experienced so much pain (either physically, or more often emotionally), that a bullet or some other means, was the only pill with the strength to ease it.

Thanks again Tony

So Mr. Egan did something rational and noble because he blew his brains out rather than battling lung cancer? Hmm. You may want to discuss that with the millions of people living with and battling cancer. I am one of them. Words like "uncurable" and "terminal" are very powerful, but they are simply words. I have heard these words applied to me and I doubt very much my family or friends would be very happy if I killed myself (perhaps my insurance company would be). I live a pretty normal life - despite ongoing treatment and the spectre of a fatal illness that could take a bad turn at anytime.

I am sorry for your personal loss to suicide, but please don't praise Mr. Egan for robbing his loved ones of time that could have been spent living, even with the hardship of illness. It was assuredly his choice, but I don't think it was a good one.

My condolences on the passing of your wife, and condolences to Mr. Egan's family.

Your article raises issues but muddles several points: 1) The publicity or not for suicide and by whom 2) the "stigma" of suicide 3)compassion not categorical condemnation of the person committing suicide 4) The question of condemning or not of the suicide act itself or the justification of a person's 'right' to kill oneself.

On #1, as was raised by one post, the cause of death of an individual is not something a company has a right to disclose on its own, but the proper family spokesman. On #2, you confuse and mix this points with the others: One should not give reason to judge such an action, and it is true that the fact of a suicide says nothing of the culpability or rightness of the action. The default negative reaction to the person is one we should work to remove from our own thoughts.

#3, Most should agree, that we don't know the person's condition or mental state, or reason, or illness and we should presume compassion for them and their families, not as said above, culpability and condemnation.

on #4, Some consider this an open question, some consider it closed. It is clear that the history of our western civilization has stated there one has no "right to die" . To admit of self-initiated society is a position that admits of hopelessness, that admits that teenage suicide might be a matter of "choice" rather than a cry for help, that admits that the time left can not be used (or that those around the terminal or depressed person are not providing the support and reason to live), that admits that Lance Armstrong should have jumped off a building rather than fight to win over cancer, that Stephen Hawking should have seen the reality of ALS and killed himself a long time ago. Most of us know that we would endure more pain rather than do some silly, expensive, and incapacitating treatment just to prolong our time left, or go home in pain rather then stay in hospital to malaise, feel comfortable, but be removed from our families. But, given the needs of those around us, would accept a shorter time to be with those around us for whatever time we have left and help those who love us deal with our coming and inevitable demise.

Mr. Kontzer ...
Thank you for your comments about Mr. Egan and youself. Far too often, we try to put these events in a closet, hidden from view. This is most definitely an under-reported epidemic. And for Dr. Copeland, yes there should be hope ... treatments to help beat these diseases, medications to deal with the physical pain, and counseling for the mental anguish. But let's face reality, these things are not readily available. I lost my own father to suicide. Diagnosed as terminal, he tried the treatments, did the counseling, and fought the disease. However, his health insurance (which he had paid into for more than 20 years), reached its maximum allowance and cut off coverage. Faced with ever mounting expenses ... his savings dwindling and his family at risk to lose their home, he did what he thought was his only option. While I don't condone his action, I certainly can understand it.

I must disagree with your assertion that Mr. Egan's death was some clear headed choice. I have had the personal experience of losing a close relative to lung cancer and enlightened physicians, hospice workers, and clegy provided my wife's grandfather with a dignified, pain managed death surrounded by family and friends without taking matters into his own hands.

While one might judge Mr. Egan's choice as rational due to his illness, EVERY suicide thinks they have no other choice, whatever their circumstance.

I just read Tony Kontzer's piece on Richard Egan and his suicide. The loss of any person is worthy of sorrow on the part of those who loved him or her, whether that demise was the result of disease, accident, or suicide.

The phrase that struck a nerve for me, though, was "death with dignity." In my personal experience, this is an oxymoron. Death is a destroyer, and there is nothing dignified about it. My father died over ten years ago of the effects of Alzheimer's disease, and there was no dignity in his passing. What was present in the hospice, however, was something that's much more real, and certainly something that's of infinite value to the family and friends of the departing. There was caring. There was love. There was an understanding of a life fully lived. That care, which I saw in the hours leading up to my dad's death, was what I want when my time to expire comes along.

We are finite creatures in this world. Whatever awaits us after death, nothingness or life eternal, does not distract us from that painful reality. We have a beginning, middle, and end. We had no control over the beginning; only the middle and end are within some part of our grasp. We must understand that it's those parts of our story that we must live with gusto and passion.

Mr. Kontzer,

Thank you for the courage and sensitivity that you demostrate in your comments about Richard Egan and sharing your own painful story. The stigma around mental illness in our society is still so strong and unfortunately it is often the loved ones of the mentally ill who bear the brunt of that shame.

I have struggled with major depression for many, many years and frequently contemplate suicide. If not for the love and care of my family, I don't want to consider where I would be today.

I really appreciate you opening up a dialogue on this difficult topic. Kudos to you and to your editors for allowing you to.

Tim Jones
Tulsa, OK

I am so touched and encouraged by the volume of comments to this post. I can't really do justice to any of you in a reply, but know that I appreciate the good wishes you've sent me, and respect all the differing perspectives offered. This is the beauty of this medium. So much sharing between people who don't know each other.

This is a difficult topic, and there are no easy answers. My perspectives are not the right ones, they're merely mine. I've had 3 1/2 years to think about my wife's suicide, and as anyone who's been through this kind of loss knows, any mention of it commands your attention. Hence my post.

If it helps all of you survivors out there, I wondered how life would go on--even though Roxann and I were divorcing at the time, and I had a LOT of anger about her decision. But two years later, I met an absolutely amazing woman, a breath of fresh air, and today we're newly married, with a home we just purchased, and a baby due in December. My son, who was 8 at the time his mother died, still struggles with trying to process his loss, but he's a straight A student, a bundle of energy, and he has a father and stepmother who care a great deal about him.

Oh, and by the way, my current wife also has depression, albeit a much milder case than my ex.

As for resources, I too turned to AFSP, and even participated in one of their 20-mile overnight walks, back in 2006, raising nearly $6,000 for the cause. If you've lost someone to suicide, consider this action--it's a powerful experience that will help you heal and help us get closer to some answers to this horrible human condition.

Thanks for reading!

Tony

Thank you for that article, and maybe more importantly, your followup. I think this is the first article I've read on CIO Insight that has brought me to tears. I'm going through a similar situation and my concern over my wife's reaction to the thought of us seperating is one of the things that is keeping me where I am for now. Your response has emphasized the need for me to be aware of what she's going through and to make sure she has the support she needs in the event that we do divorce. Adding two young boys, 6 and 9, to the equation doesn't help. Again, thank you for taking on this delicate subject.

Hi Tony,

Condolences on both of your losses, especially your passed wife, Prayer's to you, your son and new family.

Congratulations on your new life also!

My comment to all of this and suicide is who does anyone think they are to want be able to control anothers life. I use "control" because that is what I consider it when "you" the one who wants the loved one, friend or significant other to hang on no matter what they are going through, no matter how much pain they have just so you can selfishly have more time with them and they are the one doing all the suffering with their illness. Let them go, be happy you will have all those years of good memories to reflect back on and they will always be with you in heart and mind if you keep them there with thoughts, memories and pictures of the good times as I do of my loved one's now gone. I am not talking bereavement suffering, but the one who has the situation has to live through a whole host of pain, suffering, possible depression (not all suffer depression when ill), sickness in whatever form their illness lays on them and more. They also get to lie there in this state of sickness for all to see and not everyone wants to be on parade when ill and looking and feeling like "death warmed over" as the expression goes. I don't and wouldn't. I have told my kids no wake, no funeral, just stick the cheapest box they can find in the ground and get it over with. I will be dead at that point and all the people that mattered to me will have been there in life and that is what I want remembered is life not death or a miserable death at that. Death has become such an equitable business that I am not going to feed into it. Simple and to the point, dead and buried is good enough, just like life was, good enough. Can't go for perfection as they say that is not a healthy way to live either, can't go for the bottom level of living life as that is kind of what this subject matter is about -depression and suicide so that leaves "good enough".

I for one, if I knew I had terminal cancer may just consider doing the same. I took care of my Mother and my Brother with terminal cancer and it is not a pretty sight to see them go from who they were to what they ended up as and they not even knowing who they were due to having to be on so many drugs to kill that pain that they were hallucinating. They were adamantly against drugs all their lives and hardly ever even took aspirin, but it is OK to get them so drugged up for the pupose of pain control and cause hallucinations and that is acceptable?! I say no, it is not, they did not agree with it when in their own capacites, but at that point they have slipped beyond the ability to make their own decisions and some times it goes to those who know little to nothing of what they go through such as a family memeber who has not been there through out but came in in the last minute to save the day - so they think and just OK any med that is prescribed. You also do not know what some families put the one's through that were there all through the years for the loved one who is dieing only to be told in the end that the children are taking over and that you are now on the outside looking in because they are going to save the day at the last minute and all they came in to do was save what they could for their inheritance that they were the only ones going after it and did not deserve it, but got it all.

I took care of and got to be with my Mother in the last six months of dieing life and Brother in the last six months of dieing life (but his kids made sure they took control near the end so that as they kept stating "we do not want to lose the house before he is gone or after either"), watching them turn into a living skeleton with their skin just hanging on their bones and no muscles to even speak of with the cancer lumps on the body poopping up and out daily and if you think it any better than just being gone then you need to be around some that are afflicted and see how not so nice it is to watch this take place. And to say die with dignity and Hospice, it is end life care they would get at the hospital, nursing home, or at home and checking in on how the patient is doing and if the med's need changing. The ones' we had did not do any councelling to speak of (other than to say he did n't have long now and his condition prior to that) if they are supposed to, they even thought it fine to let my brother have a beer in his final days while all drugged up on med's as his kids had Power of Medical and they thought it was great when they suggested it to the hospice people and that is what went on when his siblings were horrified by and against it. Just because he liked to have his beer when he was not ill does not mean or justify giving it to him while he is heavily medicated for terminal lung cancer and in the end stage of his life as told by hospice that he did not have much longer to live. I do not want that kind of care and would rather end it early if I was going to be in that position than to know that someone thought this type of action OK! This is not to say this is how all are handled either, this was his situation.

There are many reasons for suicide and some are to save one's self from pain and suffering and for others it is to save their loved one's of the prolonged pain and suffering of watching them end up who they were not.

If that day comes for me, it is my choice and not anyone elses when and how I choose to die. It has been my job all through my adult life to take care of how I survived healthy or otherwise and then in the end some stranger wants to be able to dictate how I can die. No, they have no right to say anything about anothers choices just because it does not match their own, they only have say-so in their own and or their under age children and those that ask them to. Otherwise, if not asked to then butt out. It is none of your business. If you feel I am being rude and unreasonable on the subject, I do not, you have not walked a mile in the person's shoes and have no right to judge as God is our only judge and he forgives so much that the human mind does not that makes anything that humans say and do a matter of what one wants to do and not what one is supposed to do. Then again, supposed to do is by who's say-so also. That is the reason why I feel each and every one is responsible for their own self and what they choose to do with their self is up to one's self.

As I have told many if I were dead and someone brought me back to life I will sue them for everything they own just to proove my point of my right to die and not everyone's right to intervene in what was not able to be done if there were no modern medicine. I have had enough of this life one time around and if my time had come I damned sure do not want to have another go at it. Am I suicidal, depressed, NO! Just do not have to like this life and where it is going and due to health reasons have no control over it. You really have no idea what it is like to live a life of illness and not be able to make decisions or plans ahead of time due to not knowing what is going to be a good day and what will be a bad day for you and not allow you to make it out of the home. So, you wake each day and see what is in store. Councelling and med's and all the other therapy's that have gone on for years changed nothing to nothing much and being very aware and in tune with yourself has not fixed anything either. So you tell someone who is really sick how they should live and I want to tell you that you need to have a newborn child one right after the other so I can also have control over your life. Not that that is what I want. That is what you can learn from all of this is that when you tell someone what to do, when you want someone to hang on for your sake and suffer doing it and just because you think the med's are taking all the pain away and are wrong -they do not always work that well- then you are trying to control the situation and they are not able to do the same to you so where is the fairness-equality?

That is the problem with this world someone is always wanting to tell another how to live, what they can do, when they can do it, how long they can do it and on and on. To me that sounds a lot like communism and this is supposed to be a free country. Cancer runs in my family both sides and way back and you can bet if I had it and knew it was terminal, I would not prolong the obvious and I would take the short way out and save the extended long life of suffering for my family by telling them ahead of time. My family is quite aware how I feel on this and that I am dead set against anyone telling me you can't take your life if terminally ill due to their so selfish attitude of "I want you to hang on longer (and in the process suffer so that they can meet their needs of keeping you here longer) and they feel better for it. I feel that it is their guilt over what they did not do over the years and coulda, shoulda, didn't and now is the time to try to make up for it. For the close knit family who was with each other all through life's thick and thin situation's this may not apply, but it sure does for those who made excuses all throughout as to why they could not be there and how busy their lives were and on and on. So then what comes to mind is the song of the "Cats In The Cradle". No time during years worth, but time in the end if one chooses to interpret it that way or if it fits the situation.

I am sure many will give flack on this, but this is how many of us feel that I have talked to and with, over many years, that is those who have the nerve to speak up about it and let it be known that it is "me" who owns this vessel of life and not you and it is also me who suffers the ills of it and not you and me who will decide if need be to do one thing or another when faced with a terminal situation. As stated in the name, it is Just My Two Cents on the subject matter.

I have a paternal uncle who committed suicide. However, no-one would talk much about it -- especially during my childhood. From what I've determined over the years, he was also a poor soul, mental disturbed, and undiagnosed.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife, bless her soul.

I believe a lot of the stigma is a creation of religion, which condones the simple act of desperation. I'm an extremely devout in my "faith", but not at all a supported of organized religion as it is practiced today. I think they create more problems than they solve...

Anyways... great article.

Thanks for the well done piece on Mr. Egan and my condelences for your loss. My brother committed suicide July 2006 not a day goes that something doesn't trigger memories of his life and the impact his suicide had on those he left behind.

Thanks for bringing attention to this important issue

Two Cents: I am sorry for your pain and for your anger.Cats in the Cradle possibly reflects your life? This is why I think we must teach our children about good parenting from early childhood- of course to do this we must model it ourselves. I work in suicide prevention and so many issues go back to childhood- not always because of inadequate parenting I hasten to add but often because an adult/adults could not/would not act with the humanity a defenceless little person deserves. Sadly though I have come to understand that these tragic adults were only repeating their histories and I have learnt to understand that those who do not know better cannot do better.
Tony's article and the responses to it help us "know better" the issues of suicide and perhaps when we are faced with dilemmas similar we will be able to "do better".
I work too with those bereaved by suicide- it is a pain that hacks at the heart for a lifetime, mellowed only by the determination survive - such paradoxes.