>Let's review what we already know. H-1B holders typically get paid much less than qualified U.S. IT workers, and plenty of those American techies think their foreign counterparts are subpar.

This statement is divisive and factually incorrect. By law H-1B recipients are required to be paid a salary above the mean for the position and the work location in which they are hired. The salary and benefits to be received by the H-1B recipient must be documented as part of the visa application so it can be verified. If all H-1B recipients earn more than the mean that can only raise the salaries of U.S. IT workers. Add to that the legal costs and government fees associated with H-1B visa applications and H-1B recipients are not cheaper for the employer.

If it turns out that the H-1B recipients are not being paid what the employer claimed they are being paid, then the employer should be fined but please don't try to vilify the H-1B recipients.

If it turns out that the U.S. government is not verifying that the salary and benefits are above the mean, then Congress should go after the State Department for failing to enforce the law.

I hope they crack down on them. I don't like offshore outsourcing and I don't like H-1B visas. If we're talking American jobs, we can fill them with Americans. If we can't find qualified candidates, instead of offshoring or importing, we can do like those countries will do: train someone.

Most offshore IT workers don't have any real experience nor do they understand business, plus they don't care about their jobs--they'll go across the street for 25 cents more an hour. Let's do what's right people:put Americans back to work.

Having practiced as an immigration attorney and worked as a Consular Officer at a U.S. Embassy overseas, I've seen the visa process from both sides. Needless to say, I'm not surprised that USCIS has finally concluded that 1 in 5 H-1B visa applicants are fraudulent. Unfortunately, qualified individuals who command a good salary are forced to wait and often don't make the annual quota, while subpar and even fraudulent candidates get in (which in itself is a security issue).

I think it's high time the visa process was scrutinized. We want qualified workers for which there is a shortage in the U.S. to get the visas, not individuals who lack the qualifications required but manage to get in due to the skillful work of a less than ethical attorney.

CRACKING DOWN ON H1B's is ESSENTIAL to America's future -- a country with NO ENGINEERING CLASS is doomed ..

Economics operates on the margin -- so industry simply hires cheap labor, distorts the supply-demand balance in the market, and drives down all wages. Americans with talent recognize declining wages and increasing college costs = ECONOMIC SUICIDE ... top talent abandons the industry ... 40% less CS grads from MIT, Stanford, etc.

Top talent moves to a protected "profession" like doctor, pharmacist, lawyer, architect, accountant, licensed engineers, financial planner, insurance salesman, even real estate agent, or a culturally protected class like salesman, entrepreneur, day trader--"protected" classes work in a market without artificially inflated supply and naturally get paid more...

Let's just import lots of "professionals" -- some of them are bound to work out. OK, I hear we need qualified "professionals," though it apparently doesn't matter if the software they all rely on is built like the crumbling bridges of America.

This is NO FREE MARKET -- this is a market with a GROSSLY, SELECTIVELY DISTORTED supply side, controlled by management on the demand side.

BTW, historically, this importing of cheap labor to distort the supply side was known as slave trading -- an effective way of driving downs the prices of agricultural labor in the fields.

RESULT: MANAGEMENT GETS THE WORKFORCE IT DESERVES, i.e. lower talented Americans and, eventually, low talent imports, as the higher talent imports also return to their country of origin (already happening at MIT Stanford, etc.)

RESULT: A COUNTRY THAT EATS ITS YOUNG WILL NEVER SURVIVE ... systematically DISINCENTING THE ENGINEERING CLASS wil create a country that cannot engineer anything ... design it or build it ... run massive deficits and go bankr....

GREAT PLAN !

A real improvement in H-1B is unlikely. H-1B is driven by lobbyists and money paid to members of Congress. Rules authored by Congress require H-1B applications to be turned around in 7 days, giving no time to check overseas if answers, such as if they attended college or if the answer provided was a lie, or if they have a criminal or other problem record in their community. Congress has included rules allowing firms to seek an American worker just in a community of 100 people before they say no American worker is available. Firms sponsoring H-1B always want to changing the topic much like in the recent election where voters were told more about the cost of Sarah Palin's shoes than what program a candidate had for the economy.

Business as usual -- this news come as "hype" to stir i don't even know what, maybe increase the nationalistic feeling of people in the U.S.

Well, guess what: I don't think that it's needed. The U.S. people are smart enough to know that qualified personnel finds work regardless of H1-B visa holders.

1. I am in the business for more than 15 years and as far as i know H-1B folks tend to make more money than people with comparable skills and experience (The reasons are a.) They tend to work in consulting jobs, which pay more b.) They know the market rate better and don't mind moving around).
2. Closer scrutiny of H-1Bs does not reduce the number; it just filters out marginal players. This year we got 5 H1s approved, but they approved only after raising multiple queries. But we responded properly and ICE had to approve them

Simple solution: RAISE THE H1B Visa PRICE!!! If an H-1B were to cost $30,000 instead of the current $260, then only the people who really, really desperately need a particular skill set would pay it, and the H-1B sweatshops would be priced out of the marketplace. Use the $30,000 to get a top-secret security clearance for displaced Americans and fill open jobs in Homeland Security and Defense that Lockheed, Ratheon and Accenture are too CHEAP to sponsor clearances for. We are supposed to be fighting a WAR on terrorism; lets stop sending our computer jobs to countries like India and start getting security cleared Americans into spots where we can help out.

>Let's review what we already know. H-1B holders typically get paid much less than qualified U.S. IT workers, and plenty of those American techies think their foreign counterparts are subpar.

This is completely true in my experience. The example following is what happened this year at a company that I worked at. The 'mean' wage is horribly distorted (since when did a senior SAP developer with 10 years' SAP experience make 65K a year?) and the H-1B is paid 70K. Meanwhile, local senior SAP developers are commanding well over a 100K.

H-1B serves only to transfer knowledge and capital to other countries.

Let's hope for the sake of local IT that the process becomes more rigorous and so does the testing for what constitutes 'no qualified local applicants.'

I get over 40 calls and emails every week from H-1B sweatshops. They get visas for people, bring them over, pile them 6+ in a cheap apartment and make them make their own calls to try to get contracts. They do indeed get paid $20,000 to do a $75,000 job and their "consulting company" charges up to $80/hr for them. This is indentured servitude.

These consulting companies write their resumes to contain every technology buzzword and proclaim them to be experts in every skillset, when their experience is often siloed within one skillset. Yes, they were initially thrilled to be making the "big money" as it compared with their salaries in India. Salaries are going up quickly in India now. When the person tries to find a job on their own, they demand more money than Americans in the workplace, perhaps because they feel they have done their time, but most likely because they know what their "consulting company" was charging for them AND the employer would have to transfer their visa. When and if they do get a green card, they are so overpriced that I have to choose other candidates.

These sweatshops are hogging all the H-1Bs and should be illegal.

I have an employee working for me on her educational visa and have to wait until next year to apply for an H-1B for her because all the visas are depleted on October 1st, and the attorneys had too many of these "consulting company" applications ready to submit on 10/1. She'll have to be unemployed for a couple of months in 2009 because of this, and she is one of the people who would deserve a visa.
OK, done with my rant. Crack down on those applications. Crack down on these sweatshops. If they don't have a REAL job lined up, they shouldn't get a visa.

This will be a good test of how the Obama administration deals with workplace issues. As a IT professional of 40 years, I am really tired of "we can get it done cheaper by" (offshoring, outsourcing, hiring someone younger - choose one).

We have all seen our retirements shrink and our medical costs rise. I plan to retire in the United States, and I would prefer not to live in poverty.

Looks like the proverbial attempt to close the barn door after the horse has fled! H-1B is NOT a really big problem. Unless the local workers are in some kind of slumber, the bigger problem is permanent transfer of local jobs (all levels) to outside countries, including a few key people from local companies to run the operations from other countries. They are then shielded from all U.S. laws and even get tax breaks! I would not blame the owners of U.S. industries. The blame lies with the voters who fail to ask these vital questions, instead waste time on useless issues like gun rights and abortion!

I employ several H-1B programmers in my IT group. They are not offshore--they work on premises as full-time employees. Everyone is attempting to get U.S. citizenship and I assure you it is costing my company way more than $260 for the process. The $30K range is more like it. Why H-1Bs? Had job postings internally and with headhunters. Lack of qualified candidates was the main reason. Needed experience immediately and did not have time to train persons who thought they had "entitlement" because they were born in the U.S.

Would love to be able to find qualified U.S. citizens to work in my group.
BTW...we are paying a premium for the talent we need, regardless of their status. One of the reasons we don't have job hopping from our company to another.

Good government protects legitimate individual rights in the form of so-called "negative rights." Citizens do not have a positive right to a job. That would be socialism.

If one U.S. citizen wishes to employ someone of a different nationality, they ought to have the right to do so, as long as that person is not an actual danger to other citizens (e.g. a felon, or a bearer of a highly communicable disease). The current scheme of letting the U.S. government decide who may of may not be employed is a violation of the U.S. employers right to trade as he wills.

This protectionism is wrong because it violates rights. Also, in the long run, it is destructive of wealth.

Stop H1-B for while. Also please stop bringing people on L-1, J-1 visas. Some companies like Tata and Infosys pay $15 per hour to their employees and bill $80 per hour, which is stupid. More over, another giant, Accenture, brings people here on H1-B or L-1 and will pay them $24 per hour and claim $135 per hour to the client. I know this is true because I have received their invoices and processed them.

So please stop the visas for a while until the U.S. economy is stable.

It is companies such as American Express that encourages doing business with Tata and Infosys. There has never been a shortage of American IT workers. The shortage is a myth. Corporate greed is at the core of this problem. I hope the new administration takes meaningful steps to ensure that American companies do hire American IT workers first. We have to restore the middle class.

Just stop the H-1B's -- there are plenty of qualified IT'ers here, just not at the slave wages Bill Gates and his friends want to pay. Oh, bring the call centers back too -- don't say you're "Hannah" in a Bangalore accent...

I can tell you that there is a more general clamp-down. It's not just the H-1B: The H-2B, created to allow people to come to the America temporarily for jobs that U.S. workers are in short supply. Up to 66,000 H-2Bs are normally issued a year; however, last July (30th) it was capped with only 30,000 issued. This inexplicable action has prevented 30,000+ individuals from taking up seasonal work in positions that U.S. nationals won't fill. A good example is the winter sports business -- people working in a variety of trades/professions for just 5 months a year. I know, I'm an 'alien' from the UK and I won't be coming to teach Americans and other visitors how to ski. If we had been given a reason why... at least that would have gone some way to alleviating frustration and uncertainty!

1. Employing H-1B will never help the economy since money earned is sent to overseas countries.
2. In order to save more money so it could be sent back to the respective country, H-1B workers bring down the American standard of living. I have seen some H-1B workers walking in local dress in big company because they are not paid allowance to get the better looking dress at the office.
3. Employers of H1B play with the laws since lot of them produce fake papers, especially from India. The corruption is very high there, and it is very easy to get fake educational papers as well.
4.I have seen lot of people who would not even have gotten jobs in india but they got H-1B approvals. And they are getting jobs here. So talking about their intelligence is a waste of time here.
5. When employees are at client they get "on-the -ob training." These resources don't even know what work they are getting into till they start fooling around.
6. It is a very big business, which requires very little intelligence. One should just know how to play with the law.

I feel that since the H-1B system started in the 90s America has got enough talented people. It is time to stop the H-1B visa workers and America should go back to its basics now and keep American dream alive.

One more bigger problem is L-1 visa workers. That will be disaster for American jobs. I wonder why no one is talking about them.

I feel sometimes that American people are too good and accomodating in nature and the outside people are taking advantage of their innocent behavior.

By the time someone realizes this it will be too late, so act now.

Every time someone mentions H-1Bs, I get mad. American law firms are helping companies to subvert the spirit of the law while following the letter of the law. Now why would anyone pay for this service from an expensive law firm? There has to be money in it somewhere.

To say this is happening because companies cannot find good workers in America is saying that they are not looking very hard. Oh, thats right--the law firms specialize in that. And if you invest in a law firm instead of training, you don't have to worry about these people jumping ship.

To put together a few suggestions from earlier: Congress needs to severely cut the number of H-1Bs, then stick a big price tag on them.

HEY POLITICIANS: half the U.S. workforce is or will be out of work soon!!! What part of that dont you understand?????

Why do we need a fraudulent H-1B and L-1 programs? CANCEL THIS CRAP!!!

I am unemployed for the third time in three years. I am expecting my wages to go down again, if I can find another job in the software industry. My competition is H-1Bs, primarily. All of the politicians and "industry leaders" keep complaining that students are not going into the sciences any more. I have a MS, CS, and over 20 years experience but can't seem to find a job. Why would a high school student consider going to school for computer science? It no longer seems to support a decent wage. One area I worked in had H-1B persons living six to a two-bedroom apartment so they could afford to live. They walked to work since they couldn't afford anything else.

One of the positions I was contacted about is through an Indian company. The only reason they are considering me is the person will have to be a U.S. citizen.

Lets hear it for H-1Bs, the new slavery.

Gee, I hope the same people that were assigned to watch the financial industry aren't the ones who are going to provide 'additional' oversight to the H-1B and L-1 fraud problems!

But, hey, if they are, they will be rewarded with billions of free taxpayer cash for not having been doing their jobs to begin with and looking the other way for years. Hmmm, sounds pretty familiar to me!!

Is there anyone in government that can 'HONESTLY' justify the importation of foreign H-1B and L-1 labor in the present circumstances??? Now, I don't want the cash-bearing lobbyist answer--I want your own unpurchased opinions!!!

Of course, why should a bunch of overpaid, underworked, in the pocket of lobbyists care? They aren't losing their jobs, they pass their own raises, they have world-class healthcare and retirement plans (still!), most are already well-off or outright wealthy, and they all have a second or third income from their lobbyist friends...at worst, lots of free parties, trips, women and booze...

We go to jail...they make money! Its a great system eh??

Signed

U.S. IT guy out of work 4+ years now...

I am an IT pro, a U.S. citizen by choice, originally from the #1 supplier of IT talent, India. I started my career in the U.S. as an H-1B visa holder after graduating from a U.S. university. I have experienced both sides of the fence. Being an IT counsultant for over 20 years in the U.S., my own projects were eliminated and hence my jobs were taken by my fellow Indian-origin programmers. I jokingly say, my worst competitiors are my fellow H-1B holders from India and not the U.S. folks!

On the other side, I completely agree with one of the Immigration attorneys' posted comments that getting a permanent residency (Green Card) in the U.S., which leads to U.S. citizenship, completely depends on the mastermind creativity of an Immigration attorney and has nothing to do with IT demands and supply. It is more like an art rather than science of quotas, etc. I am aware of quite a few H-1B holders who secured an employement with an IT "body shop" with no real projects or clients. Also, I know cases of H-1B holders on the bench with no salary or health or any other insurance benefits paid by their sponsoring H-1B small employers or "middle-men" companies.

Both situations mentioned are "illegal" as far as citizenship, immigration and labor laws are concerned. H-1B visa holders are "stuck" with a sponsoring employer until their Green Cards are processed, which itself takes several years nowadays. So, the whole H-1B is a complex business venture. I also know few friends' newly married spouses (from India) on H-4 (who are dependent of their H-1B spouses)who are legally not allowed to work in the U.S. who "customized" their resumes for the current technology in demand and got the contract in one of the largest insurance companies in the U.S. on H1-B visa!! When this individual needs any technical help in debugging programs etc., s/he sent client code to offshore friends and got it resolved via email before the next business day. Good use of 10.5 hours of day and night time difference between India and the U.S.!!

Trust me, I am a law abiding, God-fearing U.S. citizen just like an average American feel the same crunch of the recent economic slump, but incidents like these make me very unhappy. I have concluded that whole H-1B scheme is a scam, though it has good intentions as far as the U.S. Dept of Labor is concerned. It is no different than a cheap Mexican labor working on a cash basis in U.S. restaurants or construction industries. The only difference is those H-1B IT pros in their twenties look good, smell good outside but are broke inside and sharing their one bedroom/studio apartments and carpooling with ten other fellow H-1Bs. We have been challenged by our local American management to improve productivity and match with other IT H-1B contractors who spend 15+ hrs/day with no overtime (flat-rate client deal) and have no family obligations or responsibilities. Many of those H-1B folks have hardly worked for a year or two in their home countries.

Sure, offshoring and outsourcing are cost saving practices for corporations but is it really cost effective as far as quality, communications, Web and teleconferencing (thanks to free VoIP technology!) and other headaches that we personally deal with with offshore resources?? People on H-1B are short-term thinkers and not committed or loyal to a particular client or employer, by nature of their visas. While I share the pain and practical difficulties of H-1B holders, as an American laborer for many years, who once used to be an H-1B holder, I feel more pain with current trends, where more and more work is going offshore or more and more offshore resources are coming onshore on visas like H-1B, it's same outcome for the local workforce.Not sure--is it a win-win, win-lose, lose-win or lose-lose situation?!?

The only business reason why H-1B visas are supported by the Corporate America is to access cheap labor force.

Right now, with the economic meltdown here in America, it is an increasing number of IT professionals that are out of work, and they can fill up the demand of the marketplace.

It is a general trend, of bringing immigrants directly or indirectly – legal or illegal, to supply a cheap workforce; and H-1B visa is only one part of it -- a legal way to do it.

Unfortunately, the “outsourcing” of jobs, whatever it oversees or in a form of imported cheep labor, will accelerate in the present economic environment. Also, remember that the big multinational corporations are not “American” -- even if they started on this country (taking advantage of the benefits this country offer). They are separate entities, non-bound to any country. Their only concern is for themselves. They regard a country only as a geographical place to do business. So they care less about the demise of technology in America. The rest is only public relations. Keep in mind the basic accounting / bookkeeping formula:


profit = assets - EXPENSES

Most people think that money paid to H-1B holder is money going out of U.S. How many of you know that the entire Social Security and Medicare deductions that go into the Social Security fund IS NOT CLAIMED by the H-1B or L-1 individual but is used to pay the U.S. citizens who claim unemployment benefits? These very H-1B and L-1 employees are among the highest paid in the IT industry and contribute 15% of their gross annual salary towards the SS & Medicare fund. Has any one who is deriding these visa holders ever thought of the financial impact of the loss of this contribution? Simple: compare 15% contribution from an average salary of $70,000 per annum of an H-1B or L-1 employee to 15% contribution from an average salary of $45,000 earned by non-IT U.S. citizen.

Having said this, it is important to detect and stop fraudulent applicants.

MM

MM -- Any SS advantage to the U.S. by the H1-B not claiming SS 40 years from now is offset ten-fold by the following:
1. the need of the U.S. to pay unemployment to the replaced U.S. worker.

2. The loss of the economic benefit of the U.S. worker spending in the local market when the H1-B sends money back to India.

We are observing the results of shortsighted corporate decisions, H1-B bieng one major component.

H-1B, L-1, NAFTA visa etc.
The only way this will stop is if the government outlaws it.
Note: illegals are worse.
Note: one thing that has to stop is the practice of giving citizenship to children born, of people in the U.S., on visas.
Because once one is in the country they can sponsor the world as soon as they turn 18.
Second: I had a neighbor from Costa Rica, works in construction and has no health insurance. His wife got sick and ran up a million dollar hospital bill for cancer treatment, which will end up being paid for by U.S. citizens.
Sorry, I will pay a little more for goods made in the US.

Also any of those H-1B, L-1 or other visa types: if they want to stay in this country all they have to do is marry a U.S. citizen and stay with them 3 years; then they are free to do what ever they want, as legal U.S. citizens. There is always a way around the rules.

Now all of the above being said, H-1Bs and L-1s are not always bad. I came to this country on a L-1 to fill a position where an immediate had to be filled. Was I underpaid? No. Did they process my paper work for a green card? No--I did that myself, at considerable expense and 5 yrs of time.

So there are cases where it is valid. But in the IT industry I say 90% are fraud.

Companies should tell the univeristies and work in partnership to teach people what companies need today.

A person who has been in the it industry for 20 years and has been unemployed for 5 of them. Thanks mister government for letting in the 90% of fraud cases who stole my possible jobs.

It is time to start limiting the number of H-1B visas. I am a skilled developer with years of experience, and I am currently looking at changing jobs. If it was so hard to find skilled developers, I should have easily found another job by now. I feel sorry for devs with less skills than I.

Given our economy and mounting employment, it is time to start limiting the number of H-1B Visas.

"If it was so hard to find skilled developers, I should have easily found another job by now."

How do you say that you are skilled? Maybe you are skilled enough or you are asking more pay than the market can afford.

Skill is subjective. You are looking from your perspective. But you should look from the market's need.

I am beyond angry and frustrated with catering to the greedy (C-level execs), needy (non Americans) and seedy (lawmakers).

With 20 years in IT, I was used until my employer couldn't get any more out of me, then laid off... Couldn't find a job... Retrained myself at my cost... Got laid off again... Four years later I find myself making less than what I used to make.

What happened to the American dream (for Americans)? Foreigners can come in and get a job, but once an American turns that 40-plus age, you are targeted for cheaper replacement.

To hell with sponsoring foreigners. The upper class (C-level execs and lawmakers) refuse to take responsibility for the unemployed. Yet they put us there. Alledgedly,(oh that's right, we have dumbed down the spelling -- it is now allegedly) the foreigners with visas aren't making enough to afford paying for the displaced middle class. So who is left to pick up the tab?

Let Americans work!!!

H-1B proponents are TRAITORS to the people of the United States and should be sent to Gitmo if not lined up and shot.

I have been forced to TRAIN my cheap slave H-1B replacement worker before being "downsized."

Fortunately I refused and watched the company I used to work for have massive network outages.

H-1B supporters should and will go to He!!

http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/16421#comment-69413 check this out

I have been in IT for thirty years. I have worked in the financial industry on Wall Street for most of them. Up until about ten years ago, I never worried about finding a new job. I was never between jobs for more maybe 6 weeks from 1980 until 2005 and when I went on an interview, almost always, I received a job offer.

HOWEVER, since 2005 when I lost my position after nine years, it took me two months to find a job. Then, in 2007, after working 18-hour, six-day-a-week tours, the company I worked for (Hank P's company) expanded their India L-2's and I lost my job. Since then, I am still looking for work. Yes, I'm 53, but can run rings about all those babies that don't know sh*t from shineola but are real CHEAP slave labor. It's no surprise that the economy is so screwed up. How can people survive when there is corruption and laziness from the looters and moochers of society? Maybe we should pool our money and buy a Senate seat (I hear that there is on for sale in NY and IL).

Hello Friends,
Just writing based on some of the very intricating scenarios going on all over the country for the past few months. We have a new president, and like everyone, we want to move forward and get the financial engine running again. Sure we will. But I would like to highlights some facts that are very very important and need a lot of consideration.

We are giving bailout package to the troubled financial companies. Please note that all the mainstream banks including Bank of America and others were never doing bad until they were forced to buy out the poor investment banks.

The investment banks lost only because of sheer greed and severe stupidity.
OK, that's history now.....now what? Now the government is up for a bailout package. Fine, they need help...help should be given. To be honest, I work in Bank of America and I am a caucasian American. I am cent percent right in believing that they are very highly skilled people and certainly deserve a lot than actually what they get. Only if we had more such talent, anyway.Please help us to retain the talent otherwise the technology edge we enjoy as far as computer related systems will become dangerously precarious. Please remember that the H1B people also pay 33% tax and the bailout money is composed of that also.

Based on the current scenarios where every decision is mostly on a temporary basis, we can support curbing the total number of H1B numbers issued, but certainly would be highly unfair by taking stupid steps in discriminating against them in any any form whatever. It will be very unfortunate for corporate America and everybody knows it.

Maybe asking the CEOs to have slightly less than 20 billion in bonuses be a bit more wise.

Do know that it's a world economy now and India is a powerful country. Too much of hullaboo will easily back fire in the countries where economies are doing good. And that certainly will be death to America.

Regards
Dani Ashton

Hey Dani,

Tell that to my co-workers that are going to lose their jobs this week to $15.00 Indian H-1B visa holders, I'm sure they will disagree, as do I.